[Virtualacorn-list] Multiple recipients

[Vince M Hudd]

On 04/07/2018 10:39, Jeremy Nicoll - ml VA via Virtualacorn-list wrote:
> On 2018-07-04 09:10, Vince M Hudd via Virtualacorn-list wrote:
>> On 03/07/18 14:19, Jim Nagel via Virtualacorn-list wrote:

[The list holds messages with >1 recipient for moderation]

[Various snips]

>>> In MPro, one of the options when reading a mailinglist message is to
>>> "reply to group and include copy to sender" (Ctrl-click on the
>>> button).  The result is TO the list and CC the individual.

When I read that quickly earlier and replied, I didn't spot the need to 
ctrl-click the button; I read it as having a separate button to do it.

But the need to ctrl-click means that while Messenger Pro has this - to 
me odd - option, it does require extra effort on the part of the sender 
to use it.

(It appears Thunderbird also has this option, via a drop down menu on 
the 'Reply List' button - which also requires extra effort to use.)

So the obvious solution is for people not to put in that extra effort, 
and just use the mailing list properly. 8)

>> What a strange option. What good reason is there to - in effect - send
>> someone two copies of your reply?

> It's a good question, and personally I agree with you(*).

> But your email to this list, which I'm replying to, has 'too many'
> headers:

>    From       Vince via VA list
>    Sender     VA list
>    To         VA list
>    Copy       Vince
>    Reply-To   VA list

Without spending time looking into what Mailman does, and instead going 
from memory for some things and guessing for others:

 From is "munged" to show the list address with the sender's name so 
that the from being the original sender's address doesn't upset some 
mail servers. This is the main DMARC solution.

Sender could be removed, but the recommended setting is to include it. I 
think it essentially overwrites any existing sender in the message (if 
there is one) so that any bounces come to the list server instead of the 
original sender.

I don't think there's a setting for the To line.

The CC, I'm *guessing*, is used as a way to include the actual sender's 
address in the headers in such a way that it would be useful. For 
example if you specifically wanted to send me an off-list reply.

The Reply-To I could change - IIRC the current setting isn't the 
recommended one, but I set it like that deliberately. Originally this 
was for old software like ArgoNET's PostyUser, which has no 
understanding of mailing lists - and I later discovered that Outlook 
Express also needed the same setting when investigating a problem 
someone had reported.

Thinking about it, the change for DMARC - which basically puts the list 
address in the From line - should mean the Reply-To setting can be 
changed to what it should be, so I'll go through all the RISCOSitory 
lists and make that change.

(I have to log in to this list specifically to send my own messages[1] 
so I'll change this list straight away. The others I'll do tonight.)

[1] I put myself on moderation a while back because a spammer hit on the 
successful trick of spamming one of the mailing lists with my address in 
the From line. (I think it was this list, actually.)

> * some email systems won't in fact deliver two copies - they de-dup
>    on the mail provider's server if both copies would have ended up
>    in the same 'mailbox' (that being a concept whose implementation
>    varies between systems, I've found).

Some email clients have a similar setting. So if a copy is CC'd to the 
previous poster:

* They'll see two copies if their server/client doesn't have the option 
- which I'd find annoying.

* They won't if their server/client does have that option - which means 
sending the two copies is a pointless thing to do anyway!

-- 
Vince M Hudd
Soft Rock Software - www.softrock.co.uk
RISCOSitory        - www.riscository.com